Curse

Vazze · Dec 18, 2009, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

I play a 100b w/n. I don't think that's ever been accused of being overpowered.

wrong, pve is full of op crap anyway.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/n...t10415209.html
I would be more interested in what kind of farming they are targeting with the skill changes. We know they don't like SC, but how about dungeon/mission runs, item/material/etc farms?

mrvrod · Dec 18, 2009, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

wrong, pve is full of op crap anyway.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/n...t10415209.html
I would be more interested in what kind of farming they are targeting with the skill changes. We know they don't like SC, but how about dungeon/mission runs, item/material/etc farms?

WOW! I guess every skill does eventually get picked on. Let me tell you, I'm proud of where I've been able to get my dps to, but it's nothing worth bragging about.

Jk Arrow · Dec 18, 2009, 08:30 PM // 20:30

To me there is quite a big difference between 600/smite and SF perma. With SF perma, a majority of enemies can be killed with a solo skill bar of 4 skills. It doesn't generally matter where the target is as the perma can just run by everything else to get there and kill. 600/smite by definition is at least 2 players and needs more skills to operate. That team also needs to kill everything along the way to that same target since the smiter has no defense.

I never have been able to tell if Anet's issue is the advent of the SC or the ease of killing enemies. Both 600/smite and perma do the latter very well but the speed piece can only be achieved by the perma. My guess is they never intended for UW to be cleared in 7 mins so they decided a changed was needed. But that doesn't address their recent concern for 600/smite.

If the issue is that of being invincible, well there are other skills that need to be looked at then as well - Spell Breaker, Obby Flesh, Vow of Silence. The thing with these skills though is that there is some penalty or they do not block both spells and attacks like SF does.

Nerfing SF takes care of the SC issue. Nerfing 600/smite does not. But nerfing both would take care of the ease of killing issue...until something else comes along. Nefing 600/smite also shuts down the in game roles of dungeon running, DTSC, MQSC, etc. So whether or not that is the intention, that would be the consequence.

teng · Dec 18, 2009, 08:41 PM // 20:41

i hate to say it but i think my gw days are over, after 4 years i think its about time to say good bye. i mean i understand why they are nerfing, but 600/smite isnt as bad as a shadow form farm. but then again i think its time to play something new anyways yaa...

Cuilan · Dec 18, 2009, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Trust me, as someone who's real-life hobbies consist of acting, studies of the mind, and many other things the mesmers do ingame (Even being an asshole!), I want my mesmer buffed just as you

Since the balance isn't being implemented this month, I'm going to make sure to bring up the issues with the "lower-tier" professions to the rest of the Test Krewe and hopefully we may get some discussion going on how to fix them

However, that said, as much as I want them improved for PvE, I cannot make guarantees either, unfortunately. Balancing is an... Annoying... Long... Annoyingly tedious process. For everyone!

Only one thing can be tackled at a time, dude. Now the issue seems to be SF, Tactics, and lolurfshakurpvehammers.

That was a very nice and positive reply, but my negativity makes me see it more as "Both us and Anet don't care about mesmers in PvE because nobody uses mesmers in PvE, so no rush."

Since they're so great a condition spread, perhaps build something up around that. Reguardless maybe Fast Casting should be changed with all the 40/40 set, cons, and Mindbenders running around. I don't see any skills giving me Soul Reaping or much Divine Favor.

And I wasn't aware non-warrior professions used Tactics? Examples?

Bobby2 · Dec 18, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Balanced Stance Monks rule PvE. Duh.

own age myname · Dec 18, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Just please don't mess with 600/smite. MQSC is fun

Hendrixxxx · Dec 18, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Leave 600/smite alone atleast for goodnes sake. And pimp Para / Derv a bit more.

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 18, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hendrixxxx

Leave 600/smite alone atleast for goodnes sake. And pimp Para / Derv a bit more.

In order to make Paragons stronger, SY! needs a nerf (a very well deserved nerf, but a nerf nonetheless).

Not that a non-imbagon is bad, they are just largely underestimated by PuGs (surprise surprise...the people who need help finishing the game are bad).

zelgadissan · Dec 18, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Inb4 every single skill in the entire game is PvE/PvP split. They might as well start selling this game in two separate boxes.

P.S. get rid of stupid skill splits and PvE skills

Cantos · Dec 18, 2009, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

For all I know, Test Krewe is filled with people like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantos

I dont think either of these [PS & SB] are used in serious PvP any more.

So, I revise my former statement:
Nerfing the smite component of 600/smite would be OK.
Nerfing/debugging SoA would be OK.
Altering PS or SB would probably be profoundly unwise.

Here's a post from 6 months ago about Spirit Bond. The consensus seems to be that SB is still useful.
Here's a post from October about Protective Spirit. The consensus seems be that it is not worth taking, and even SB is debatable.

Im going to reiterate that I am not talking about these skills in PvE farming, but in GvG, where Protective Spirit is pretty much not taken any more, and Spirit Bond is good, but optional. Characterising both of these skills as necessary is inaccurate.

On the other hand, I haven't played serious PvP since 2007, and I would be interested to hear your argument to the contrary.

Giga_Gaia · Dec 18, 2009, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

In order to make Paragons stronger, SY! needs a nerf (a very well deserved nerf, but a nerf nonetheless).

Not that a non-imbagon is bad, they are just largely underestimated by PuGs (surprise surprise...the people who need help finishing the game are bad).

I agree. SY! is ridiculous and needs to be looked at. I would prefer they change SY! to have the functionality of "For Elona"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantos

Im going to reiterate that I am not talking about these skills in PvE farming, but in GvG, where Protective Spirit is pretty much not taken any more, and Spirit Bond is good, but optional. Characterising both of these skills as necessary is inaccurate.

Protective Spirit is still good in most low end PvP where Ele's and Domination Mesmers like to run rampant. I understand it's not "super leet PvP" and so takes a backseat, but there are probably just as many who play these low end arenas as those who play high end.

Kaleban · Dec 18, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enon

No, because 600 is slow and it requires 2 players.

Hello Heroes! Oh, what's that, I can, as a single player, 600/Smite? Gee that's odd because I was told 600/Smite requires two players. Its not as if the idea of a Hero Bonder (smite/protection/healing) hasn't been around since Heroes were introduced has it? Nah couldn't be, all those times I 600/Smote with my 600 Rit must have been a hallucination...

Quote:

Last time I checked the enchantments used by a 600 can also be removed, making your previous statement about SF useless.

ALL enchantments, including Spellbreaker, Obsidian Flesh, Shadow Form, and other uber elite enchants can be removed by certain skills in the game that various monsters have access to. I'm just waiting on ANet to introduce a global environmental effect that disables enchants on players, period. THAT would definitely end Speed Clearing, and is the end result of the logic train employed by SF QQers and speedclear/farming whiners in general.

Quote:

Also, "isn't as quick" is an understatement... (And no, I'm not taking into account undead)

Mostly, people 600/Smiting were farming whole areas for drops, not just boss drops or end chests. Therefore, the amount gained by a 600/Smite team (two players or one player and one hero) from a purely reward vs. time taken perspective would be MUCH higher than a Permasin running a dungeon for example.

Yes, with the advent of speedclearing the UW, rewards can be high, but how many people still hold out for Storm Bows and Ghostly Staves? As a Permasin, its much more economically efficient to run dungeons or solo farm, to even approach the gains made by 600/Smite.

Basic Economics FTW.

Gennadios · Dec 19, 2009, 12:09 AM // 00:09

The 600/smite part of that update will be pretty dire news. I don't much care about the farm aspect, but it's a great source of wisdom, treasure hunting, and lucky/unlucky points. At the very least doing a full smite run will usually provide enough cash to break even on buying lockpicks for more runs.

If this gets broken up, there damn well better be an upcoming title update to offset it.

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 19, 2009, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gennadios

The 600/smite part of that update will be pretty dire news. I don't much care about the farm aspect, but it's a great source of wisdom, treasure hunting, and lucky/unlucky points. At the very least doing a full smite run will usually provide enough cash to break even on buying lockpicks for more runs.

If this gets broken up, there damn well better be an upcoming title update to offset it.

lol @ "i want this farm title and this build makes me have to farm less so if it is fixed i want to do less farming"

Alternatively, you could just not do the retarded grind titles.

Kaleban · Dec 19, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

lol @ "i want this farm title and this build makes me have to farm less so if it is fixed i want to do less farming"

Alternatively, you could just not do the retarded grind titles.

Without trying to sound too antagonistic, do you even play GW PvE? In every thread I've seen your comments, all you have to add are snide comments about how people that want this or that for PvE are retarded or foolish.

The SF thread is a great example. So I ask you, do you play PvE once you beat all the campaigns, and why? If its for items, skins or armor, then you're no different than someone who wants a title.

Its ALL just e-bling, whether displaying a title, prestige armor skin, or Crystalline Sword. So unless you quit playing EoTN the moment you beat the Great Destroyer and skipped picking up rep shrine blessings the whole way, stop deriding others' play style.

Meridon · Dec 19, 2009, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Right, I'm going to have to admit here that I also have a Monk character, with which I have enjoyed frequent UW 600/smite farm runs since Regina confirmed that several farming builds would be nerfed. I do however think that 600/Smite should also receive a nerf, however it should not be killed off completely in the way it is likely to happen to SF. A nerf to Spell Breaker (target other ally maybe? or just kill it) or Spirit bond (duration/healing/recharge) would be more than adequate.

I don't have a problem with farming builds at all, as long as they have limited effectiveness in the overall game and can only be used to effectively in a limited amount of areas. A perfect example of that would be the 55 Monk, which is good at farming Gates of Kryta and a few other areas, but in the rest of the game it's useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

I know it was just meant as a back at you comment, but, show me any person who has a neutral and unprejudiced perspective on anything, and I'll show you a robot who's been hiding among us. It's human nature, the best you can hope for is to try to keep an open mind despite your preconceptions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Yup. Unless you can tell me how wanting both builds to get the same treatment is not neutral.

My point here was that I'm tired of Assassins who come on Guru to complain about the future nerf to the only skill they know how to properly play the game and farm with, and then think that if they can't farm anymore with SF, nothing else is allowed to do so either. This, is of course a bit exaggerated, but you see my point. Wanting similar treatment has nothing to do with being neutral if your intentions are wanting others to be as butthurt as you are (in other words, revenge).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Basic Economics FTW.

While you are right about the economics you are talking about, it's not what the core of this problem is about. The core issue is that SF and 600/smite are too omnipotent and efficient at the same time, and have therefore pushed practically any other profession to the back when it comes to farming and speedclearing, because they're just so good in so many situations.

iTzF3aR · Dec 19, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

nerf 600/smite plz

Yelling @ Cats · Dec 19, 2009, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Without trying to sound too antagonistic, do you even play GW PvE? In every thread I've seen your comments, all you have to add are snide comments about how people that want this or that for PvE are retarded or foolish.

The SF thread is a great example. So I ask you, do you play PvE once you beat all the campaigns, and why? If its for items, skins or armor, then you're no different than someone who wants a title.

Its ALL just e-bling, whether displaying a title, prestige armor skin, or Crystalline Sword. So unless you quit playing EoTN the moment you beat the Great Destroyer and skipped picking up rep shrine blessings the whole way, stop deriding others' play style.

Yes, I played PvE for nearly 3 years, with some PvP thrown in.

And no, I didn't grind for some artificial sense of wealth, or some e-peen enlargements like titles (even though nobody at all gives a damn). I spent the majority of the time helping friends and guildies finish the game, on one of my characters, along with randomly helping a group of PuGs...though that became more and more rare when they started actually rejecting the help.

I also played quite a bit in dungeons with various builds and characters.

I'm the perfect example of the game being playable without having ridiculously powerful builds that can solo entire areas, and that grinding for loltitles isn't needed to enjoy the game.

Axeman002 · Dec 19, 2009, 12:44 AM // 00:44

im loving this...sins get bombed with 'enjoy ure nerfbat' by everyother monk....but wait...anet might be touching the precious monks too NOOO OMG LETS REVOLT !!! THIS CANT BE RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING HAPPENING?!?!?! .........u guys started this mess...im glad to see abit of it backfiring on you ..."he who laughs last, laughs best."